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| 5 | +<title>PM Working Group annotation task force meeting – 12 June 2025</title> |
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| 19 | +<h1> |
| 20 | + PM Working Group annotation task force meeting</h1> |
| 21 | +<h2>12 June 2025</h2> |
| 22 | + |
| 23 | +<nav id=links> |
| 24 | +<a href="https://www.w3.org/2025/06/12-pm-ann-irc"><img alt="IRC log." title="IRC log" src="https://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/scribe2/text-plain.png"></a> |
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| 26 | +</header> |
| 27 | + |
| 28 | +<div id=prelims> |
| 29 | +<div id=attendees> |
| 30 | +<h2>Attendees</h2> |
| 31 | +<dl class=intro> |
| 32 | +<dt>Present</dt><dd>DaleRogers duga, George, Hadrien, LaurentLM, Leonard</dd> |
| 33 | +<dt>Regrets</dt><dd>Ivan</dd> |
| 34 | +<dt>Chair</dt><dd>-</dd> |
| 35 | +<dt>Scribe</dt><dd>LaurentLM</dd> |
| 36 | +</dl> |
| 37 | +</div> |
| 38 | + |
| 39 | +<nav id=toc> |
| 40 | +<h2>Contents</h2> |
| 41 | +<ol> |
| 42 | +</ol> |
| 43 | +</nav> |
| 44 | +</div> |
| 45 | + |
| 46 | +<main id=meeting class=meeting> |
| 47 | +<h2>Meeting minutes</h2> |
| 48 | +<section><p id=b0dc class=irc><cite><duga></cite> +1</p> |
| 49 | +<p id=5768 class="phone s01"><cite>hadrien:</cite> wiki are not great on github. GDoc is usable. Discussions and issues are best.</p> |
| 50 | +<p id=d2b2 class="phone s02"><cite>laurent:</cite> <a href="https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs">w3c/<wbr>epub-specs</a> contains old stuff, we can add a section.</p> |
| 51 | +<p id=9322 class="phone s02"><cite>Laurent:</cite> will come back to the WG chairs</p> |
| 52 | +<p id=0d12 class="phone s03"><cite>George:</cite> embed in the content doc or ?</p> |
| 53 | +<p id=6903 class="phone s02"><cite>Laurent:</cite> in the package</p> |
| 54 | +<p id=6f65 class="phone s04"><cite>Leonard:</cite> it is tbd.</p> |
| 55 | +<p id=e56a class="phone s04"><cite>Leonard:</cite> is it only when they reference an EPUB?</p> |
| 56 | +<p id=4fa9 class="phone s02"><cite>Laurent:</cite> yes</p> |
| 57 | +<p id=f739 class="phone s05"><cite>Brady:</cite> this is what I'd like to see from a cross-platform annotation feature. Who is implementing this? we need 2 implementations.</p> |
| 58 | +<p id=ffff class="phone s05"><cite>Brady:</cite> people at Google would only be intersted if there is a good business case behing it. There are not so interested for now.</p> |
| 59 | +<p id=43f8 class="phone s01"><cite>Hadrien:</cite> Readium Mobile toolkits (100+ apps) will include it. Readium Web also. Users iclude libraries, retailers .... And there there are apps developed by EDRLab: Thorium Desktop, Thorium Web, Thorium iOS, Thorium Android.</p> |
| 60 | +<p id=209f class="phone s02"><cite>Laurent:</cite> Readwise is ok, they will implement a new export/import.</p> |
| 61 | +<p id=b4b9 class="phone s05"><cite>Brady:</cite> implementations count even if they are from the same organization. It would be better if there are different organizations.</p> |
| 62 | +<p id=d2a7 class="phone s03"><cite>George:</cite> the Daisy requirements and RFP of a Scandivanivan org will call for a reader with annotations.</p> |
| 63 | +<p id=ab18 class="phone s06"><cite>George:</cite> I'd like to add to the scope, for education: exercices in books / workbooks (filling info, give to the teacher). A class of annotation could be such answers to exercices.</p> |
| 64 | +<p id=7eb6 class="phone s07"><cite>Dale:</cite> in the education sphere, LMS are more apps than ebooks. Answers are sent to a store. The technology is already there.</p> |
| 65 | +<p id=113c class=irc><cite><leonardr></cite> <a href="https://xapi.com/">https://<wbr>xapi.com/</a></p> |
| 66 | +<p id=d747 class="phone s08"><cite>Dalerogers:</cite> this is a replacement for scorm, xapi.</p> |
| 67 | +<p id=9354 class=irc><cite><leonardr></cite> xAPI is actually maintained by a US Gov't agency (<a href="https://www.adlnet.gov/">https://<wbr>www.adlnet.gov/</a>)</p> |
| 68 | +<p id=099c class=irc><cite><leonardr></cite> however, standardized by IEEE - <a href="https://www.adlnet.gov/projects/xapi/">https://<wbr>www.adlnet.gov/<wbr>projects/<wbr>xapi/</a></p> |
| 69 | +<p id=2446 class="phone s08"><cite>Dalerogers:</cite> having worked on LMS, to engage with students, and the annotation is in the EPUB, the teacher will receive the book + annotations. It is different from personal annotations for personal use. We have to talk about security...</p> |
| 70 | +<p id=8f93 class="phone s02"><cite>Laurent:</cite> it can be seen as a sequence: a- annotation in the reading system b- exported as a file c- exported in the EPUB and maybe d- sent to a server. At point d, maybe xapi will be the answer.</p> |
| 71 | +<p id=5898 class="phone s03"><cite>George:</cite> possible use case, people selling their annotations.</p> |
| 72 | +<p id=f3b9 class="phone s09"><cite>duga:</cite> if annotation selectors contain bit of the text, there will be IP issues.</p> |
| 73 | +<p id=05c9 class="phone s10"><cite>leonardr:</cite> the W3C annotation addresses such issues with different selectors.</p> |
| 74 | +<p id=2efd class="phone s09"><cite>duga:</cite> publishers may not appreciate people making money with annotations if they contain bits of the text.</p> |
| 75 | +<p id=7874 class="phone s08"><cite>dalerogers:</cite> In the education domain, going though an LMS is required to log / document and secure exchanges between teachers and students.</p> |
| 76 | +<p id=2c01 class="phone s03"><cite>george:</cite> in home education, there is no LMS. Simpler exports / imports are useful.</p> |
| 77 | +<p id=6fc1 class="phone s01"><cite>hadrien:</cite> a clear requirement from end users: switch between reading systems and get their annotations back (and bookmarks and reading location). Another example in education, PhD student, lots of citations and annotations. If I use a specialized platform, I want to keep it for later.</p> |
| 78 | +<p id=e9a2 class="phone s01"><cite>hadrien:</cite> about keeping annotations between book version, using EPUB URI schemes was difficult. I would be worried if we try to go too deep in this direction. We can recommand selectors that are stable enough to survive modifications, but trying to identifiy version of an ebooks will be impossible. If the annotation is "un-anchored" but has some contect, it is still valuable.</p> |
| 79 | +<p id=7d9b class="phone s04"><cite>leonard:</cite> are annotation version-specific or publication-specific? There is no consensus in the community. We must take a stand. We'll have a great conversation</p> |
| 80 | +<p id=d800 class="phone s03"><cite>George:</cite> usually, there is not enough metadata in an epub to make proper citation. We'll need to give recommendations for EPUB metadata.</p> |
| 81 | +<p id=3a72 class="phone s09"><cite>duga:</cite> it is not strictly in our TF goals.</p> |
| 82 | +</section> |
| 83 | +</main> |
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| 86 | +<address>Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by <a |
| 87 | +href="https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html" |
| 88 | +>scribe.perl</a> version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).</address> |
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